This is the continuation of an inter-blog discussion. Haven't caught up? Here are the previous posts:
- Trev's first post and comments HERE
- Tim's first response and comments HERE
- Tim's second response and comments HERE
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To Tim, Travis and others who have jumped into this discussion: Thank you! I appreciate where each of you are coming from and your comments and posts have helped round out and shape the way I'm thinking about such things.
Let me be the first to say that my original post - "Thoughts on What It Means to Be Christian" - is a flawed discourse. The fact that I submitted it for publication on a website is somewhat ridiculous as it was originally written for myself and has sundry problems that I will be free to admit.
That being said, while I enjoy this conversation and I think it is allowing all of us to learn and more fully listen to one another, I'm not sure we will ever reach any sort of conclusion besides that of mutual respect. The reason for this is that we are beginning in different places.
The following statements made by Tim...
- Quoting John 14:6 as de facto justification for an argument
- "humanistic compassion will not get anyone to heaven"
- (humanity's image of God) "was shattered in the fall"
...very clearly elucidate that he believes the Christian Bible to be the only inspired, perfect, God-breathed text in existence. I have lived with that view for many years but can no longer rationally or mystically make that claim. I found that all of my "evidence" for such a claim to be a defensive rationalization. How do I, then, see the Bible? Let's start there.
The stories, legends, poetry, songs, and myths that we've come to know as the Bible - in a phrase - is one certain culture during one certain period of human history trying to understand God. Based on their cultural experience and short history, their image of God (the tribal God "YHWH") looked and behaved a certain way. Here is where most "liberal" Christians (who discount or play down the Bible) fall short. What I DON'T think this means is that we should throw out our Book. It's our story. It tells of God's love and power and mercy and forgiveness and blessing and truth. But my shift is that it is not God talking to us word-for-word, it is man talking about, testifying to, and trying to understand the God that can be known yet ultimately in which all words fall short. Does that mean that the stories, myths, testimonies, songs, etc. aren't true? By no means! A story does not have to be historically accurate to obtain truth. This is the curse of modernity - that science/reason trumped the other two: art and morality. Truth is not a measurable quantity - it is immaterial - and can exist apart from scientific data. The Bible tells us mounds of truth about God and as Christians is our primary book!
One might interject here and claim that the Bible was (in its original form anyway) handed down (or breathed through) writers FROM GOD and all of what I'm saying is rubbish. While I do not intend to offer a streamlined evidential reasoning on why you should think how I think, I ask you: Why do you not believe that the Bhagavad-Gita is the perfect word of God (as do Hindus)? Or why do you not believe the Tao te Ching is inerrent and inspired by the Almighty? You might even be so bold as to say that they DO contain truth, but not the truth direct from God's mouth. In other words, for every reason you can give to discount another faith's book (which don't even get me started on how we overly emphasize text in religion to the point where it's Father, Son and Holy Bible) that is also the reason why I cannot fully accept the Bible en masse.
The phrase that most beautifully explains where I am coming from is "One River, Many Wells" (Matthew Fox). Here is a line from the introduction to the book with the same name:
"There is one underground river - but there are many wells into that river: an African well, a Taoist well, a Buddhist well, a Jewish well, a Muslim well, a goddess well, a Christian well, and aboriginal wells. Many wells but one river. To go down a well is to practice a tradition, but we make a grave mistake (an idolatrous one) if we confused the well itself with the flowing waters of the underground river. Many wells, one river. That is Deep Ecumenism."
I do not quote this passage to validate my claim rather to run alongside it (for I know that Matthew Fox is as errant a man as any ... of this I am sure).
Just two more things, then I will discuss a few of Tim's points. First, where am I with Jesus then? Is he the one, unique Son of God and did the cross wipe out the sins of mankind? To be blatenly honest, I don't know. I don't have any reason to say so, except that's what some people say is true and its what someone (namely Paul) wrote down in a few letters a few century ago. In actuality I find in Jesus an example - a goal - a life which one should seek to emulate. One of many who figured out what it meant to fully live. To be filled with God's spirit. To heal and love and teach and all the things that made up my initial post: "Thoughts on What It Means to Be Christian." Therefore following Jesus is following the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Secondly, as I said in the post on Dan's website, I am not a proponent of extreme postmodernism where there is no truth and everything is equally true. That is completely ridiculous. (Afterall, we have differing views about these various topics, no?) I am not a Universalist in this regard because I believe that evil will not go unpunished (even if by natural processes) and that Love, Truth and Beauty are always victorious in the end. As far as how heaven and hell fit into this picture, I surrender to the mystery and allow God to be God in this regard.
Now about a few of Tim's points:
- Again, comments like secular "compassion will not get anyone to heaven" can only stand on an inerrant Christian Bible as the only truth of God. Apart from the text, such thinking is ludicrous. Of course simple compassion (yes, even divorced from Christianity) is living up to God's Best (we need no 'text' to prove this, it is in our guts) and as far as the requirements to heaven, even the inerrant text that would back such a claim is divided and provides no clear picture.
- Tim said: "Just as Buddhism negates aspects of Hinduism, it is indelibly true that Christianity does, and at times must negate other forms of religiosity; and even if it does not negate, it will entail addition." Of this, I agree. It is silly to say that all ways are "the same thing" and do not contradict each other. A man cannot commit horrendous and unnatural crimes and claim to be reaching for God. But even while Taoism, Islam, and Christianity are different in many ways, their aim is the same (though their methods are different) and they are each flawed and each full of truth.
- Regarding Tim's comments about the Fall - again - we cannot fully have a conversation about this issue because we both begin in different places. I think it is a travesty to see people "already in debt," fallen, and born into sin. The concept of Namaste ("God in me recognizes God in you") from Hinduism resonates better with my soul and provides the fertile ground for love, healing, and compassion.
- Tim said that if I am providing a Universalist philosophy then "it is quite likely that following "the way" doesn't even matter...Belief and action become meaningless." Again, I am not trying to provide a religious or philosophical "theory of everything" that has all the answers. And this is one area that I - again - allow the mystery to remain. I do not believe that truth, love, compassion, and beauty go "unanswered." These are the highest aims of life and provide total meaning and purpose both for the individual and society. But regarding those who have no spiritual life - no arms outstretched to God - and no heart for love - I am not sure what becomes of them. I simply do not have the answers and can only speak and act for myself.
- Finally, regarding Travis' comment about "evening the social playing field." He argues, with truth no less, that the Bible does talk about "slaves obeying your masters" and uses the example of the story of the woman pouring expensive perfume onto Jesus. These are indeed two examples that show that oftentimes we are supposed to "render to Caesar..." and to give God/Jesus our best even when that requires us to be lavish. However, time and time again... story after story... we see the small, simple God-community abolishing the Empire (the Jews with God over Egypt, the call of the prophets to cease living in ivory towers while your neighbor starves, the voice of Jesus commanding us to give to the least, the last, the lost - even to the book of Revelation - which in some circles is about the fall of the Roman empire). To see much more about the entire Bible being a book about the "underdog" rocking the Empire, see Marcus Borg's "Reading the Bible Again for the First Time."
Thanks again to everyone who is following this discussion. I welcome any and all comments. God bless and Namaste! ;)