Thursday, August 10, 2006


Julie asked for a transcript of the radio show I mentioned yesterday... here are some excerpts:

It's much simpler than this person is trying to make it in the world of duality... There are two places from which we live: one is from center, and the other is from egocentric, karmic conditioning. The world of egocentric, karmic conditioning is the world of duality, that's the world in which we have right and wrong and good and bad and us and them and up and down and its the world that almost everybody is living in all the time. That world of duality is contained within what we talk about as center.

When we are centered, when we are present, when we are living in a non-separate reality, there is absolutely no desire to cause harm. Now, that is not the same as "we are able to control life."

I'm very attentive to what's there, AND I cannot control (that which is out of my control). I can be as aware, and as present, and as attentive as I can be; I can do the very best that I can do, and I have no control over life.

So, where does morality comes from? Morality comes from presence. And understanding that there is no "self and other," that nothing can happen to "you" that doesn't happen to "me," that we are one. And that understanding - not as an intelluctual understanding - not as a theory - but experientially, knowing that, causes us to want to - as the classic traditional way of saying it in Buddhism - "to cease from evil, to do only good, and to do good for others."

Selfishness, a willingness to be harmful, taking what is not rightfully ours, all of that lives in the realm of egocentric karmic conditioning.

Michael: So the morality comes from being present?

Yes. And it's not even morality at that point, it's simply oneness; interconnectedness.

Michael: And in that place there's no room for all the dualities.

No. The dualities exist, but it's not something that we need to "figure out" or understand. It's true that light doesn't happen without darkness. If we view that in the world of duality, then they are opposites. When we step back and see that from center, we realize they are one. They're simply two ends of a continuum. They're not separate. You can't have one without the other... it's just not a problem (laughs). Life and death all happen within life.

All of this that we're talking about, all of it is experiential. Intellectual understanding is fine if it inspires us to have the experience. But an intellectual understanding without the experience is absolutely useless. It's like being really hungry, and having an intellectual understanding that eating food is going to take care of that hunger. The only thing that's going to take care of that hunger is eating the food.


isaiah said...


I really appreciated the opportunity to discuss this issue with you and those who responded.

Thanks for sharing your light with us.

anonymous julie said...

Thanks, Trev, for posting this. I like the last paragraph! *impish grin*

Andrew said...


Count me in on those who really enjoyed this discussion. Thanks.

That last paragraph reminds me of Watts: "You can't get wet in the word 'water'!"

Jon said...

She's much more succinct than me!

Celeste said...

Hey Trev, totally unrelated question here...will you tell me how to place banners in the margin of my blog? I figured out how to add links, but not a gif. THANKS!

Mark Walter said...

I am back blogging.

isaiah said...


Please come back out and play!